Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Equipment discussion, and any tech stuff post here

Moderators: stan, Chris S, Zoltan

User avatar
NeilandPat
Gold
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: South America Going Slow
Contact:

Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby NeilandPat » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:39 pm

Most Overlanders choose to fit some additional fuel filtering to their truck.

I myself havea Separ filter but I have seen many made by Racor.

I dont think we appreciate how good and clean the diesel in Europe is but when you get farther afield the quality is very different. Bolivian diesel is so black that an inch in a dish would prevent you seeing the bottom.

I now believe that my additional filter is probably in the wrong place as it it is upstream of the original . Being a very fine filter it clogs up easily. In 12 months ( 25000 km ) I am now on my third element.

These elements are expensive and you cannot source them here. Luckily I bought a few spares.

Despite having a cleanable strainer up stream of the Separ they block up really quick. One batch of crap fuel and its finished.

If I was designing it again I would put a small but better quality sacrificial filter ( with very cheap easily sourced elements ) before the Separ

I have however, now started to try and wash out my old separ elements in Petrol. They look good but as yet I havent re used them, but at the rate I am going through them it wont be too long.

The message is that if you are going to venture out of europe then take with you loads of fuel filters and expect to use them. Normal service intervals dont apply.

Neil ( Peru )

Waddmiester
Gold
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby Waddmiester » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:19 pm

Sounds like good advice Neil.
I take it the truck still runs ok on the dark stuff?
No reduction in performance?

User avatar
NeilandPat
Gold
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: South America Going Slow
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby NeilandPat » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:41 pm

Luckily my engine was first produced in the 1960's and can run on any old crap.

I am aware of some travellers with modern euro 5 engines that throw up all sorts of fault codes and really wont run on this stuff.

Some euro 5 also wont go higher than 3000m without shutting down. This isnt considered high here.

Also most of the diesel in Peru is Biodiesel. The trucks ok on it but the Ebrspacher doesnt like it

Neil

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby crinklystarfish » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:16 am

Good real-world feedback.

T244s have their fair share of shortcomings but the standard fuel delivery system is not bad once the stupid push-fit fuel-pipe fittings are replaced. The sedimenter bowl acts as a pretty good pre-filter without relying on any actual elements. The standard fuel filter that sits downstream of the sedimenter is readily available, cheap, and has it's own condensate drainer built in. I remember one T244 owner who had bother with dirty fuel repeatedly clogging the main filter in central America but I'm almost certain he'd had the sedimenter bowl bypassed (as per many T244s released from the MoD) and not realised / been bothered to re-commission it. I asked him directly if his sedimenter was plumbed in and his silence spoke volumes...

No surprises that diesel heating furnaces are temperamental with dirty / bio / otherwise less-than-optimal diesel; hence ongoing advocacy of having an LPG-based heating solution alongside. Of course, these have downsides too but if both are fitted it improves versatility and options.

At least cooking is not via a diesel hob...

User avatar
NeilandPat
Gold
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: South America Going Slow
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby NeilandPat » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:08 pm

Steve you are right.

I now think that if I was building again I would adopt Phils approach

Ie Diesel heater for main use, hot water and engine pre heat etc

Then in addition a small propex for the quick warm up.

Not sure how propex would be over 4000m, my gas cooker doesnt like it , popping yellow flames etc.

Neil

Waddmiester
Gold
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby Waddmiester » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:40 pm

Neil,

Interesting question.

Wander whether the Propex heaters have a high altitude kit available to change the gas air mix to improve combustion. New gas valve / jet maybe?

I'll have a look.

Wadders.

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby crinklystarfish » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:56 am

It seems few lpg-powered appliances actually fail at altitude though performance is undoubtedly affected. If proposing changes to jetting or regulated pressure to compensate then this is definitely one area where manufacturer's advice should be sought.

Hob / oven is obviously showing signs of incomplete combustion due to rarified air but as long as there's a CO detector on duty and the hob / oven is used strictly for cooking (not heating as has been known (not in Neil's case I stress)) there should be no safety issues.

FWIW I have a little alcohol stove for emergencies - they are tiny and will easily pack away in even the smallest overlander. I've used mine a couple of times when out in the car birdwatching and what have you. They'll pretty efficiently make beverages / rehydrate packet pasta / pot snacks etc and allow you to make a hot water bottle.

I know it's not what you want to happen when you've built a spangly overlander but stuff does fail and I'd rather have a belly full of Pot Noodle and have a hot water bottle than not...

I accept the benefit-of-a-belly-full-of-Pot-Noodle argument is not that persuasive.

User avatar
christyler
Gold
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:34 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby christyler » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:35 pm

i am lucky with the Tatra engine, it will also run on any old shit. the problems Neil is experiencing with gas-powered devices at altitude was one of the reasons I decided to go for all-electric cooking etc.

I will be using diesel for my main heating but have an electric system as well for redundancy.

fuel filters, i used 3 in series just cheap to replace ones.

User avatar
NeilandPat
Gold
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: South America Going Slow
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby NeilandPat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:11 pm

Just to clarify

Nothing works well at altitude over 4000m Including me.

Over 5000 m and you are on a bit of a wing and a prayer when using appliances or even starting the engine if its really cold ( minus 20 ) as the eberspacher pre heat is a gamble.

In saying all that we survived and we did it fine.. and would hapily do it again

You cannot make the perfect truck for all climates and altitudes and believe me you will not spend very long at 5000m minus 20 so you just have to get on with it and it will be fine.

Parking with the fuel tank facing sunrise is a very important tactic. The early sun soon warms the fuel up.

My hetaing is all hydronic and to be honest although its great its too slow.

Sometimes you just need a quick blast of heat to top up and that will do you until the next morning.

I think 10 minutes with an instant heater such as eberspacher hot air or gas propex would be really handy.

However, just boiling a kettle seems to do the trick.

I think having had a tupperware normal motorhome in the past I imagined having to have the heating on for hours like we used to.

This simply isnt the case with these highly insulated boxes, 10 minutes and your good to go for the rest of the night.

I wouldnt dwell too much on altutude issues, ( unless your euro as they just wont get over 3000m ordinarily ) . You will survive it and it will only be for short periods over 4000m.

However we spent several months between 3000 and 4000 and most things are OK, just slower

I have an 800w electric fan blower ( B&Q special). Use it all the time for that quick 5 min top up, works a treat.

We heat the hot water most of the time on the 220v electric element. It hardly touches the batteries .

Neil

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Bad Fuel and Additional filters

Postby crinklystarfish » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:37 am

christyler wrote: ...the problems Neil is experiencing with gas-powered devices at altitude was one of the reasons I decided to go for all-electric cooking etc.

I will be using diesel for my main heating but have an electric system as well for redundancy.

fuel filters, i used 3 in series just cheap to replace ones.


It'll be interesting to see if the LiFePO4 tech does indeed open up realistic possibilities for reliable electric cooking - looking forward to seeing how these systems pan out.

Poor quality / bio / dirty diesel / high altitude all make for poor performance or even failure with diesel-powered heaters / cookers / gensets and, of course, truck engines.

LPG powered appliances are generally less prone to poor fuel / altitude issues. Propane-powered devices will usually be good to go wherever you are - but of course the BIG downside is LPG isn't easily available everywhere.

Thinking about optimum systems, Simon C has an old-school alcohol-burning hob (popular with mariners) that also has electric heating elements built in for when he's on a hook-up. He also has an old-school wood-burner for space heating. Strikes me that this old tech is probably worth its weight in gold in dirty diesel / no LPG areas or when at high altitude.

Hmmmm...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Return to “Equipment & tech”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest