Registration of an imported truck.

Anything vehicle related

Moderators: stan, Chris S, Zoltan

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby crinklystarfish » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:17 am

If anyone from DVLA is reading, Brian meant to say that no one has ever confused his truck for anything remotely odd as it's glaringly obvious to everyone that vehicles that look like 'ours' could only possibly be motorcaravans.

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby crinklystarfish » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 pm

OK,

DVLA have responded... with the expected empty waffle.

Basically they say they don't apply an external appearance test, then say they do but they can't tell us what it is for fear of us being criminals who might exploit it, then refer us to the list of interior fixtures and fittings we already know about.

I'm on with a response / escalation...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

DaveS
Gold
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:25 pm

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby DaveS » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:00 pm

Wow... how on earth can a list of criteria for establishing what a vehicle looks like be used for criminal purposes, and used for grounds to withhold that information. Smells a lot like a diversionary tactic to me.

Personally I would be requesting clarification on the grounds for that decision (or clarity about who exactly makes that decision) - otherwise pretty much any Freedom of Information request could be batted away easily. Maybe Law Enforcement would release this instead?

Be interesting to also seek a Freedom of Information report from Law Enforcement to confirm how many instances have been recorded of a vehicle not matching its body type description being relevant to any prosecution or legal proceedings.

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby crinklystarfish » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:56 am

The DVLA is a pristine example of the kind of organisation that is so large, unwieldy, and poorly managed that it spends more time, effort and money on the protection and development of the organisation itself than on providing the service it was actually created to provide. Using an appropriate analogy: if it were an inverter, it would take 95% of your leisure batteries' output just to run itself.

So it surprises me not one bit that the FOI response is just waffle. NB - the response they sent was dated 25/10 but it didn't reach me till 30/11 and upon checking I note they haven't even been able to copy my postcode correctly; so the letter's been in the ether for over a month.

You couldn't make it up.

I think it's pretty safe to say that having cut through the horsepoop we can assume suspicions are correct and that they do not have a policy that helps staff to make sense of the ultimately meaningless published 'advice' that “…the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home”.

I'm personally quite sure that staff (and it's not hard to imagine how experienced / capable some of them will be) just make whimsical decisions regarding what does and doesn't appear to be a motor home up as they go along.

I've already responded and had coincidentally adopted Dave's line of reasoning and asked that the enquiry is forwarded to a department / individual that is able and will produce an answer to the very specific question:

What measurable, quantifiable, objective characteristics does a vehicle need to possess before your operatives are empowered to deem that it “appears to be a motor home”?


and to publish a list of characteristics that need to be demonstrated so the external appearance test can be satisfied - in much the same way as they have succesfully done for interior requirements like a fixed table, beds etc

I've purposefully kept it this simple and not challenged them to produce any other info or to defend their horsepoop FOI response. It would just make them even more defensive and give them an excuses to cloud the issue at hand.

So... I'd suggest that as many people as possible (especially those who have already been knocked back or are likely to be applying to change body type to motorcaravan sometime future) to write to DVLA and ask them to publish a clear and easily understandable written list of characteristics that need to be satisfied before they will deem that a vehicle has the visual appearance of a motor home.

For the time being it would be useful to email or write to them and state you are writing in connection with FOIA case reference number: FOIR7167 and ask them to forward your query to whoever is dealing with the escalation of that case.

I now have a direct email address: foi@dvla.gov.uk NB you may see on the image of the letter that this is different to the address on the letterhead. Even their stationary is inaccurate.

You really couldn't make it up.

Alternatively, you could find a wall and throw money away whilst banging your head repeatedly against it.

User avatar
NeilandPat
Gold
Posts: 1408
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: South America Going Slow
Contact:

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby NeilandPat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm

Great work Steve

We all really appreciate what you are doing.

I concur with your description of the DVLA.

Neil

crinklystarfish
Gold
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:34 am
Contact:

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby crinklystarfish » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:01 am

As above I asked them:

What measurable, quantifiable, objective characteristics does a vehicle need to possess before your operatives are empowered to deem that it “appears to be a motor home”?

This is the response:

Thank you for your further e-mail of 6th December, your comments are noted.

As explained in my previous reply, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) is required to record the details of vehicles for road safety and law enforcement. The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. This description, in addition to other distinguishing features, enables the police and other enforcement agencies to identify a particular vehicle. Therefore, the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home.

This policy accords with the relevant legislation which is set out in the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act (VERA) 1994 and the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 (as amended). The policy guidance refers and is in tandem with the Regulations.

Under these Regulations DVLA will register a vehicle on behalf of the Secretary of State and must be satisfied of the changes before issuing an amended registration certificate V5C. Whilst I am unable to comment on other individual cases, all applications for change are considered on a case by case basis in line with the specific alterations made. Based on the information available regarding the appearance of your vehicle the body type cannot be amended regardless of the changes that you have made to the interior.

I realise this is not the reply you had hoped for but trust it clarifies the position.

Yours sincerely,

David A Morgan
Freedom of Information Team
Data Sharing & Protection Group | Strategy, Policy and Communications Group | C2 | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL


So, basically, more empty waffle and an abject failure to answer the simple question posed.

They cannot or will not tell us what they look for when determining whether the "exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home."

Some public body.

DaveS
Gold
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:25 pm

Re: Registration of an imported truck.

Postby DaveS » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:55 pm

Wow - so basically they just didn't answer the question.

The response about applications being considered on a case-by-case basis is a concern actually... it suggests complete autonomy in terms of what will and won't pass the external appearance test.

Recently some of the large van conversion guys seem to be running into increasing issues too - people converting Varios and Minibuses for example seem to be going down the decal route as a way to demonstrate their case.... (zoom in on the side window!)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Return to “General Vehicle Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron