New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

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DaveS
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New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby DaveS » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:04 pm

Hi all

It struck me that given recent developments regarding diesels and LEZs around Europe particularly... has anyone revisited the "what truck" question?

I'm thinking specifically of vehicles less likely to fail LEZ requirements, but still overland friendly.

Canter/Fuso 4x4 is an obvious answer. But what else is out there? Or would switching back to older petrol motors actually be an advantage? (Is a Gaz 66 London LEZ compliant - no idea!?). Thoughts guys?

Ivan C
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby Ivan C » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:24 am

When I was looking I had the choice of a new MAN chassis + cab, cost £70k ish , weight 6t or an '04 Euro 3 MAN 10.185, cost £22k, weight as a chassis + cab about 4.75t.
The new truck was never coming below 7.5t so class C needed - I have it, wife doesn't.
Various other things get more complicated over 7.5t, recovery and insurance for example.
There is also the issue of running complicated tech. when the warranty has expired and you may be away from the dealer network.
I plumped for the '04 truck, £50k cheaper, slightly smaller and lighter.
Everyone will have different circumstances so their answer will be different
Ivan C

crinklystarfish
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby crinklystarfish » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:20 am

As Ivan says, anything diesel powered and clean enough to enter the ever-increasing number of exclusion zones is almost certainly going to be very heavily electronically-controlled. This is generally not a good thing for independent travel in inhospitable places.

I suppose there's an argument that if towns and cities are your thing, then you don't really need an overlander, any simple EuroVI (or whatever we're up to) motorcaravan will do.

If you want to do developing coutries and include deserts, rain forests, steppes, arctic zones AND LEZs in the 'developed' world, there's a bit of work involved. You need electronics to run 'clean' engines but electronics can and do leave vehicles stranded if they sense operating conditions out of their parameters - or simply fail. And both of these things happen - especially with the rigours of overlanding and poor quality diesel.

Marcus Tuck has published a lot of very useful information regarding mastering the electronics of an Iveco Daily 4x4 to enable a reasonably clean vehicle to perform with sub-optimal fuel and at altitude etc. http://www.tuckstruck.net/

Marcus is big on the 'green' aspect of using a modern vehicle for overlanding but is open to the very real truth that re-purposing an existing 25 year old truck - as opposed to supporting the ongoing production of brand new plastic-laden vehicles - might actually result in less overall environmental impact.

Unfortunately policy makers take the simple view that emisions are the arbiter.

Another very viable proposition is to base a build on something like a Ford F-450 with the big 6.8l V10 petrol engine. The Wescotts have built a series of very capable overlanders on base vehicles of this genre (albeit on diesel versions). https://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/turtle-v/

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Zoltan
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby Zoltan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:47 pm

I was musing about using the spare input in the Gaz transfer box for an AC electric motor and adding a 20kwh battery pack under the habitation box thus creating the world's first Gaz-66 diesel electric hybrid for those pesky low emissions zone transits. If it would make sub 30mph for 5-10 miles that would work nicely :lol:

DaveS
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby DaveS » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Cheers guys. Tuckstruck link is interesting - thanks for that.

Referencing towns/cities - take your point - and indeed I would likely throw a small motorbike or electric mountain bike on the back for runs into any centres... I was thinking that over time these areas may get bigger and more intrusive to travel. For me personally, I'm looking mainly at Europe, and thinking bad road, rather than off road, and wild camping where possible - hence shying away from "normal"campers/motorhomes.

The balance of electrickery vs simplicity is an ongoing headache in these kind of discussions.

Hybrid Gaz66 is obviously the way to go :mrgreen:

crinklystarfish
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby crinklystarfish » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:20 am

If Europe / Scandinavia and bad roads are the combination then it's unlikely that poor or high-sulphur diesel will be encountered. Also, support networks for recovery / diagnostics / repair are pretty much guaranteed so there are few compelling reasons to shy away from today's technology.

The logical answer to the opening question given intended use would be to plump for a well-known and dealer supported base vehicle with the cleanest diesel engines available. You'd also more than likely benefit from increased fuel economy. Or go the petrol route.

Just on the logistical side, though; even if your vehicle is clean enough, there might still be time-consuming hurdles to jump. This remains a nuisance, with each country where LEZ zones are encountered having its own admin / permit system (like the different systems employed for collecting tolls). The systems make perfect sense if you are resident in a country and don't leave it - less so if you're in a foreign vehicle passing through. Sometimes, by the time you've sorted the relevant paperwork, you could be through the country.

Who'd have thought that petrol and anything-else-flammable powered 50-year old Russian trucks knocking out 8mpg would be the preferred green option?

Oh, and never mind the electric motor Mr W, engineer a drivetrain from your pushbike - you need the crazy-challenge training.

Grommet1
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby Grommet1 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:03 pm

I wondered if I changed the registration on my Gaz 66 to lpg whether that would grant exemption. I run it almost exclusively on lpg now including start up. However I've no intention of taking it into London. The M25 is bad enough getting from Yorkshire to Dover.
Also I don't want the hassle of the vosa negotiations to change it over. So for now it stays as it is and runs great in lpg. Better than petrol in fact.
Cheers
John

crinklystarfish
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby crinklystarfish » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:00 am

You're probably exempt anyway, John.

https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/16063.aspx

Grommet1
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Re: New... what truck/van thread (LEZ thinking)

Postby Grommet1 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:56 am

Yes you're right sccording to the checker it's exempt from lez restrictions.
Cheers


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